Monday, March 30, 2009

Good Stupid Muslim Women

Picture says it all really. Except that if they really were Good Muslim Women they would not allow themselves to be photographed, since their religion forbids the making, or allowing to be made, images of "Allah's creations", and neither would they dare to show off their bare ankles, a flogging offence in Saudi Arabia to name but one progressive Muslim country.

Perhaps they're just another pair of religious hypocrites?

Still, I'm willing to bet that they'd tell you that they adopted their ridiculous apparel willingly and that they are delighted to make themselves totally subservient to their menfolk - and Allah, of course. Next they'd tell you that they deserved lapidation if they ever committed adultery (some chance whilst wearing a bed sheet permanently).

But fair enough, if that's how they wish to waste their lives, let them do so. But why here and not in some shithole of a medieval Muslim state where they belong?

45 comments:

yasir interested said...

thats all bullshit............listen who ever idiot u r u have to pay 4 that one day ameen

The Merchant of Menace said...

And that's exactly the sort of ignorant and moronic comment I would expect from some sad psychopathic religious believer - and no apologies for the oxymoron.

MiMi said...

loooool, you really made me laugh, I'm proud Muslim Woman, architect, PhD student,and i devoted my life just to prove for persons like you how wrong and shallow they are. and I believe you should ask yourself, who really is the stupid?

WavegirlThinks said...

Too right, MM, say it like it is!

To MiMi: You are the stupid.

takkie said...

omg why the hell you will write.it doesn't bear a single grain of truth to it.and if you just have to write something as silly as that,it would be better that you do your homework first.because let alone that Surat,there is not a single verse in whole Quran which ask men to beat their wife.and listen,we would take it seriously was it written by some Muslim women.who are you to speak on Muslim women behalf.even they wont like you talking this crap.may Allah guide you.

rohan said...

Save ur country from muslims..............these muzzies wont stop till they make sure even non muslim women are wrapped in a burqa..............
............in my country these ppl have become a pest......they consider it to be their duty to convert/Kill each and every non believer

kadiyahya said...

I simply have a question to ask lets say just out of curiosity :
You are I suppose serving the muslim women you are depicting in the photo as stupid an eye opener so they would give up their faith I suppose or perhaps you consider yourself to be a fervent advocate of human rights and so you are condemning the suffering that these poor Stupid women have to endure because of their faith because of Islam ..? You would say of course that No religion should impose that silly costume is that wright ? Is this the basis of your attacking this religion and these women ? or are you simply confused by the unshakable faith the Muslim community have been showing since its birth throughout History a strong faith that we can see even today..You might want to check your informations.How about reading what Allah actually Says about women who suffer domestic violence?
How about acting like a civilized human being and respecting other people's faiths.You can say what you want about Islam because everyone has that divine right to speak his mind but how about not destroying what all civilizations throughout history have struggled to erase and that is Prejudice ; ignorance of fact and making a judgment about one and half billion muslims who remain human beings after all or do you think otherwise?
People like you are the reason so many nations amongst them the Black community; the Palestinians still sacrificing even nowadays but also the Jews in world war 2 people who think and insult others like you do they are the reason these nations had to sacrifice lives and lives just because of prejudice ..So keep going go ahead and prove that all the suffering our ancestors have endured was for nothing!!!

The Merchant of Menace said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Merchant of Menace said...

Takkie,

You demonstrate the dysfunctionality of all those poor delusional souls who are unable to apply rationality and critical thinking when it comes to examining the charade and lies perpetrated by (and in the name of) religion.

First, you accuse me of writing something which "...doesn't bear a single grain of truth to it...(sic)".

Second, you acknowledge that I correctly quote Sura 4:34 and add "...[that apart from that Sura]there is not a single verse in whole Quran which ask men to beat their wife (sic)".

Third, if your first premise is correct, then your second is not.

Fourth, if your second premise is correct, then your first is not.

Fifth, your statement "...who are you to speak on Muslim women behalf (sic) contains two fundamental errors of logic, viz: (1) I am neither speaking on behalf of Muslim women, nor did I claim to do so, and (2) I am simply exposing the truth about the nonsense which you apparently 'believe' in.

Sixth, in short, Takkie, you are the one who is speaking nothing but crap - to use your choice descriptor - not me.

Now go and stick you head back up your arse where it has been all these years, you delusional (and illiterate) buffoon.

The Merchant of Menace said...

Kadiyahya,

Your surmise that I am "...serving the muslim women you are depicting in the photo as stupid an eye opener so they would give up their faith... (sic)", but that is not correct. Any psychotherapist will advise you that such a task in nigh impossible, for delusional psychopaths are the most intractable of all mental patients to deal with, as they are completely locked into their own delusional fantasies and obdurately refuse to acknowledge the sheer incredulous irrationality of their so-called 'beliefs'.

You then suggest I should read what this entity you call 'allah' actually says, but therein lies some difficulty, for no-one over the millennia has ever been able to produce a single scintilla of credible empirical evidence that 'allah' ever existed, far less that 'he' actually said anything at all.

In short, you are simply another delusional madman, and just because you share your madness with millions of other sad people that fact alone does not turn your so-called 'beliefs' in a non-existent entity into objective reality.

But as I said above, delusional psychopaths are the most intractable of all mental patients to deal with, as they are completely locked into their own delusional fantasies and obdurately refuse to acknowledge the sheer incredulous irrationality of their so-called 'beliefs'.

In other words, unless you can provide objective empirical evidence that your so-called 'god' exists, it is just a figment of your imagination, and the fact that other ignorant people share your spurious opinions proves nothing other than what has been termed 'the madness of crowds'!

The Merchant of Menace said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Merchant of Menace said...

MiMi, you claim to be "...a proud Muslim Woman(sic)" and then you pose the rhetorical question:"...who really is stupid?, to imply that you are not. However, if you are not stupid, Mimi, then you must be either (a) a delusional psychopath who believes in non-existent entities and make-believe nonsense, for neither you nor anyone else has ever been able to produce a scintilla of credible empirical evidence that your so-called 'god ' exists (or ever did), or (b) you are a manipulative sociopath who claims to 'believe' in such spurious nonsense simply in order to exploit others for your own self-aggrandisement and enrichment. But whether you are simply stupid, psychopathic or sociopathic, the truth of the matter is that it is you who is shallow, for only a truly shallow person could claim to 'believe' the arrant nonsense that is religion.

ahsana said...

pls read the Quran with full explanation, just try to know about when a husband can beat his wife&with what?if she is not obeying her husband for reasonable things,first advice her,then also if she is not obeying, remain apart from them with bed ,then also if she is not obeying at last if there is no other way, husband can beat her that too not on the face,without leaving any marks on her body,that too it is telling with a pencil or toothbrush on hand,that itself is discouraged by prophet.YOU know one thing,Islam is the only religion which gives right on property for women & also she don't want to spend even one paise for her family,men have to look after all her needs,he have to give money even for breast feeding,he have to give mahar for her on the occasion of marriage and also he cant take it back even on the event of divorce.why i want to tell much,only after the arrival of prophet girls in Arabia got the right to live.then if women want to go for the job she can,there is no restriction & also she don't want to spent anything from it.Islam had given much rights to women than a feminist wants.now also if you don't want to agree with this,you are acting as sleeping,i cant make you wake up,i can wake up only a person who is really sleeping,if you are not yet realizing, your intention is not to give freedom to Muslim women,your intention is to create a worst impression about Islam.I am very proud being a Muslim women.May ALLAH grant you knowledge from his light....ameen

The Merchant of Menace said...

Ahsana,

It is you who needs to read the Quran properly, not me, for it says nothing about a husband being restricted to beating his wife with a pencil or toothbrush on her hand only, nor does it say that he cannot leave marks on her when he beats her.

Sura 4:34 says this:

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ ۚ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَاللَّاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا

For those unable to read the foregoing, and I suspect that includes you, Ahsana, here is a fair translation:

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

As for your other claims about the rights of women under Islam, they are equally spurious and I have no doubt that there are few genuine feminists who would agree with your claim that "Islam had given much rights to women than a feminist wants (sic)"

In conclusion, Ahsana, whilst you may be very proud to be a Muslim woman, your comment is completely incorrect, and it is you who needs to wake up, not me.

Rae said...

STUPID LIKE REALLY GET A LIFE SMDH

The Merchant of Menace said...

Rae,

Clearly you are labouring under the misapprehension that someone who posts a comment as inane and unintelligent as yours is not stupid and really has a life, but I must disabuse you of those notions for clearly you are nothing but an inarticulate moron with nothing better to do. Still, what can one expect from someone like you, Rae, since you have clearly demonstrated that your IQ is barely into double figures. It would be unkind of me were I to comment further on your obvious mental affliction, so I will simply wish you goodbye.

Ashlea said...

i think that each to there own if you believe or not is up to you...being muslim is no different to being christian, hindu, buddist or jehovah do i see you picking on these religions? why muslim they have a bad name yes but only because of what some of them have done. are all germans bad because hitler was a mass murderer?

The Merchant of Menace said...

Ashlea,

Thank you for your comment, even if it is a gross simplification of the facts, totally incorrect and, quite frankly, a load of nonsense.

First, being a Muslim is different “to being christian, hindu, buddist or jehovah” (sic), as anyone who has read the Qur’an and the Hadith will readily testify. In fact, the differences are so numerous and so striking that anyone who thinks otherwise, like you, apparently, clearly does not know what you are talking about.

Second, you raise the question “do i see you picking on these religions?” (sic) which clearly demonstrates that you have not read any other posts on this blog since since it excoriates all religions and those who profess to believe in them. In fact, the majority of posts on this blog are directed towards the Anglican Communion and the Roman Catholic Church, but then you would not be aware of that since you have clearly read nothing further than this particular post.

Third, your claim that “muslim they have a bad name yes but only because of what some of them have done” (sic) completely misses the point of this particular post, namely the shameful and obscene subjugation of women by Islam and the fact that so many Muslim women are too stupid, brainwashed, or frightened to do anything about it.

Fourth, your final question “are all germans bad because hitler was a mass murderer?” (sic) is both a non sequitur and completely inaccurate. To begin with, Hitler was not a mass-murderer, since he never murdered anyone as far as I know, though he was a sick and evil little man, but then so were all Germans who subscribed to his views and subscribed to the philosophy he detailed in Mein Kampf. Similarly, any Muslim who does not stand up and openly condemn fellow Muslims who carry out murder and other atrocities against humanity in the name of Islam is also a sick and evil little person. However, one cannot hide from the sad fact that only a minority of Muslims are prepared to criticise the atrocities carried out in the name of Islam, apparently, and those who do are often considered to be apostates by their fellow Muslims and face the death penalty under Sharia law or at the hands of another psychopathic Muslim.

Nora said...

wow thats stupid. have you actually ever been to a muslim country? in islam women are seen as important for raising children. in the bible it says that eve brought down all mankind and that women are evil. in the quran both adam and eve are held responsible. the bible says that female children are a curse, while in islam all children are special. jeesh, study on the subject a bit before writing things like that. and im a christian, not muslim, so im not being biased just telling it as it is

The Merchant of Menace said...

Have you ever lived in the real world, Nora? For the only thing that is stupid is your monumental ignorance, stupidity, and inability to comprehend objective reality. There are no gods, you moron, and the scribblings that are passed off as 'holy books' are nothing but the drivelling of psychopathological idiots like yourself.

Shuraya said...

The picture you've put up of the Muslim women is quite offensive...reminds me of the pictures that they used in the olden days to propagate hatred towards the Jews!

I'm not going to tell how wrong you are about the things you've been saying about Muslims and Islam, clearly you have an answer for everything. I just wanted to tell you that not everyone is unhappy...and perhaps, whether religion may be a 'twisted' truth or not, it gives people something to live for...and believers of God and religion don't need someone telling them how wrong they are.

If you cared about the oppression of these women, perhaps there is an alternative way to help them see the 'truth' rather than abusing them on you website! I would suggest for you to join a charity that helps women who have been oppressed.

Religion, in your eyes seems to be a gross violation of human rights...but don't you think that everyone has the right to choose their own way of life or should we all become like you? supposedly free from oppression.

...and for the record, I'm a Muslim and I disagree with all violent acts..towards individuals and countries!

It's quite sad that we should have to justify religion...isn't this the 21st century?

You seem to a very intelligent person. I only hope that one day you will truly understand what religion means to people and how in most people's lives, it is a positive thing.

Aisha said...

why are you doing this? why are you discriminating Islaam when you know that no Muslim will change their religion just because of your rude and racist comments. if you think that by editing pictures of Muslims, by picking out certain verses of the Quraan and making up your own meaning of its beautiful translation you will find peace... YOU are completely insane and you are the sort of person that anyone will call stupid because even Nora who is a Christian supports the rule of racism. if you think that you will truly find peace in doing these things then you are wrong because the only place anyone can find true contentment is in Islaam. I guarantee you that if every Muslim in the entire world was to see this website then every single Muslim would definitely be furious and leave a comment about Islaam and how it is the only true religion. I could actually go on for years and years or even my entire life trying to tell you what is right and what is wrong but i am not going to do that although it would benefit you. I know that if i would do that you would reply by saying i am stupid but you would be lying. if i carried on for my entire life you as the old devil you are would die within 1 week because you cant handle the truth.
i know that your going to say some horrible things back so i am going to stop and i hope you do too. may ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY show you the straight path and give you the understanding to know what is right and wrong.AMEEN

The Merchant of Menace said...

Oh dear, Aisha, your comment demonstrates just how dysfunctional you really are.

First, you falsely accuse me of discriminating against Islam which is manifestly untrue, as anyone who can read with any comprehension can discern for themselves. You, however, are incapable of such discernment, because if you were you would appreciate for yourself that the nonsense you claim to believe in is simply a complete fabrication from beginning to end - and that is true for all religions, not just your peculiar version.

Second, you falsely accuse me of racism which is also manifestly untrue, for Islam is not a race. In any event, none of the comments I have ever made on my blog have ever been racist, but then you clearly fail to comprehend the meaning of that word either.

Third, it is amusing in the extreme that you have the temerity to call me insane, when it is you who is the one who does not have sufficient insight to appreciate that your so-called ‘religious beliefs’ are simply delusional and that they have no credible basis in objective reality.

Fourth, your comment rapidly descends into even more preposterous nonsense with your declamations, inter alia, that the ‘only place anyone can find contentment is in Islaam (sic)’, and that ‘Islaam (sic)…is the only true religion’. Only someone who is suffering from complete detachment from objective reality could make such ridiculous assertions and only someone who is intellectually and psychologically dysfunctional could believe them.

Fifth, you then have the temerity to assert that it is me who ‘cannot handle the truth’ but your comment clearly demonstrates that you are the one who is guilty of that which you accuse me, for unless you can produce credible empirical evidence to the contrary, your so-called ‘god’ is simply a figment of your tortured imagination – and just because you share your ‘religious beliefs’ with others does not objectify them.

Finally, your comment is clearly that of a demented person and hardly merits my reasoned response – not that you are likely to comprehend it anyway – so I will waste no more of my time in dealing with your incoherent ramblings, vituperative nonsense, and spurious allegations.

The Merchant of Menace said...

Thank you for your comment, Shuraya, though there are a number of aspects of it I would take brief issue with.

I do not believe that the picture is offensive, as it accurately reflects how certain Muslim men treat their wives and that they do so with the full backing of the Qur’an, nor is it used to propagate hatred.

Regrettably, your assertion that I have an answer for everything is misplaced; however, I do not accept that I have no right to comment against religion. Whilst religion may give some people something to live for that is no reason for it being protected from rightful criticism. As for your claim that I am telling religionists how wrong they are, then that is no more than they have done over the millennia to those who do not share their particular set of unsubstantiated beliefs in some allegedly supernatural entity or entities.

As for religion being a violation of human rights – well it is, when it is foisted on children rather than leaving them to grow up without such brain-washing into intellectually mature adults who are capable of thinking critically about the issues involved and deciding for themselves whether to ‘believe’ or not in any religion.

Your comment: ‘It’s quite sad that we should have to justify religion…isn’t this the 21st century’ says more than you clearly intended. Religion cannot be justified, empirically or logically, which was why Keirkegaard had to admit reluctantly that it could be sustained only by a ‘leap of faith’. Furthermore, he fact that it is the 21st Century is all the more reason why mankind should have no need for the superstitious, ignorant nonsense that underlies all religions and why religionists should not be allowed to foist their psychopathological beliefs on others. Having said this, I believe that you are content in your life and I am pleased for you, even if I do not grant religion the respect you think it deserves.

Shuraya said...

Hello again...I would recommend watching some Dr. Zakir Naik or Ahmed Deedat videos...perhaps they will answer some questions for you...Wish you all the best!

The Merchant of Menace said...

Shuraya,

Thank you for your suggestions, however, I am sufficiently well grounded in objective reality not to need to watch, listen or read any further arguments claiming to be evidence for the existence of entities called 'god' or 'gods' to know that no-one, over the millennia of human existence, has ever been able to produce a scintilla or credible empirical evidence that such supernatural phenomena exist - or ever have.

If either Naik or Deedat had produced such credible empirical evidence to substantiate their otherwise spurious claims, then they would have already been nominated for, and received, a Nobel Laureateship in physics.Frankly, they are either just another pair of psychologically damaged and needy persons, or they are entirely fraudulent manipulators of such psychologically damaged and needy people, for I have no doubt that neither of them have ever been able to produce a single scintilla of credible evidence that their so-called 'god' exists - or ever has done - or that their so-called 'god' is paramount to any of the other 4,634 other known 'gods' that mankind has invented over the millennia - many of which still exist in the minds of their 'believers'.

In conclusion, there is no need to resort to what is effectively an 'appeal to authority', but simply to produce objective empirical evidence that the so-called 'god' you claim to exist does. If you can achieve that, then the Nobel Laureateship will be yours.

Pax vobiscum.

Shuraya said...

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but your not the cleverest person on earth!

How is it that your right about religion being complete nonsense, and everyone else is wrong??

I guess I'm just waiting for you to tell me something that makes me think...'hang on a minute, why do I cover myself up...I'm much less oppressed wearing a mini skirt!'..so far the stuff that you've said about religion makes me much stronger in my faith...makes me want to know more about my religion so that I can understand it better.

I don't know how to explain it to you, but I really don't feel oppressed and I am so grateful to my parents for teaching me how to be a Muslim...or perhaps I'm brain washed...?if I am, I don't care...its not like I'm losing out on anything!

If I'm right that religion is true and that Islam is the one, then I guess I'm the one going heaven (Inshallah), but if your right, and there is no religion, then I guess I still win...I'm just going be dead and would've led a happy life thinking I'm going heaven!

...and by the way...following Islam isn't irrational...there's so much in the Qur'an that proves that it really is from Allah, like the verse in the Qur'an that says that the Earth is shaped like an Ostrich egg...(Quran 79:30)...and there's so much more!! Surely Muhammad (SAW), an illiterate man, could not have known that!!...But I'm pretty sure you have your own theory about this!

Have you heard the recitation of the Qur'an...?I don't understand a word of Arabic...yet something, something moves inside of me...the words are soooo pure...If betting was permissible, I would bet my life that the Qur'an is the word of Allah!!

I'm sure you have done a lot of research about Islam...with the intention of finding negative stuff ...why don't you try finding the good stuff??

Islam is perfect...Muslims, not so much!

I pray that one day you will learn the truth....and 'jump upon the peace train'!! (Yusuf Islam/ Cat Stevens)

May peace be with you!

Shuraya said...

http://findtut.com/dr-zakir-naik-islamic-preacher-banned-from-entering-britain-465790

...I guess you'd be happy to hear that Dr. Zakir Naik has been banned from entering the UK... apparently he's 'dangerous'...far from it!! He is a part of PEACE TV for goodness sake!! I would've understood if he was part of TERRORIST TV...or something like that.

...I do remember that he did once say that all Muslims should be extremists...as in extremely kind, helpful etc...I guess they took it out of context!

...I don't get it, everything that I know which is good and true has been described as extremism or worse.

Am I a radical Muslim?? What is a radical Muslim...? Anyone who isn't a moderate Muslim?? Should I be banned from certain countries too...I guess people like you want us out anyway...we are taking over the world!...says the girl who finds it difficult to walk down the road without people making faces and swearing!

who is the terrorist?? Me, a 19 year old girl? Or the people who scare me nearly everyday of my life...?

Why can't people just let us live peacefully...why is it that you can live your life pointing a finger at people like me and live a worry free life?...and I have to suffer at the hands of the ignorant just because I dress differently. How do you know that the 'menfolk' have forced me to be who I am and how to dress? How would you know anything about me? Your probably a middle class white man in his late thirties, or early forties! I could be wrong...but your making assumptions too!

The Merchant of Menace said...

Shuraya,

If you want to spend your life claiming that you ‘believe’ in a supernatural entity for which there is no credible empiric evidence then that is entirely up to you. If you are not prepared to examine objective reality and think critically for yourself but prefer to remain in your deluded state then that is your loss. Your so-called ‘god’ is no more real than the thousands of others that mankind has invented over the millennia. However, it is no surprise to me that you claim that my comments simply make you stronger in your faith, for any psychiatrist will tell you that psychotics are the most intractable of patients as they are almost totally impervious to the fact that their beliefs are completely delusional and founded on little or no objective evidence whatsoever . But then I am not the one who has failed to learn the truth, it is you. To reiterate the comments I have made previously, over the millennia no-one has ever produced a scintilla of objective empirical evidence that any so-called 'god' exists, or ever has done. Incidentally, your reference to sura 79:30, is a complete misquote for it does not say what you claim, namely: “the Earth is shaped like an Ostrich egg”. The original text can be read here: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/60_79/79_27-40.htm , and it is a fair translation to render it as: “And after that He spread the earth.” What a pity you could not get even a simple thing like that correct.

Shuraya said...

http://www.learnpeace.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147&Itemid=1041

The Merchant of Menace said...

Shuraya,

The link you post does not constitute credible empiric evidence of the existence of the entity you call 'god'; it is pure sophistry, and not very sophisticated sophistry at that.

If you, or anyone else for that matter' think otherwise then you are clearly completely detached from objective reality and incapable of comprehending logical argument.

I do not intend wasting any more of my time indulging your delusions and in future I will simply expunge any more links you post here to Islamic sites which purport to present scientific fact allegedly 'proving' the existence of [your] god but actually just spout specious unscientific, illogical nonsense and sophistry.

If believing that sort of nonsense makes you feel good, then go away and enjoy the experience, but do not waste the time of those of us who do not share your delusional 'reality' by returning here with your inane comments and links to moronic websites.

dkbrattlie said...

Well, I think you have nailed Islam and the oppression that comes from it quite nicely on the head. A book you might be interested in is "The Trouble with Islam" written by a Muslim woman who wishes to reform her faith. One of the very few Muslims willing to speak out against violence committed every day in the name of Islam.

One of the major points apologists for Islam seem to miss when they rush to say, "Its just a few crazies who are destroying the faith!" is that quite simply, it is not. Just some of these examples are in the case of honor killings, public executions, torture, stonings, violent riots with people holding up the "Slay those who mock Islam" signs. The people doing this are not the jihadists and terrorists. They are the townspeople, the shop keepers, the uncles and camel herders.

There is one thing however that I feel I must object to. That would be the attitude that you seemingly have that those who have faith and believe in a higher power should not be allowed to speak of that, specifically your comment, "The fact that it is the 21st Century is all the more reason why...religionists should not be allowed to foist their psychopathological beliefs on others." I am not sure what country you live in, but I personally live in America. The freedom that people have to believe what they wish and practice their religion is the same freedom that gives you the right to speak against it. So long as it is not done with violence, people have the right to attempt to convert others, as Jefferson said, "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." So unless someone is trying to convert you by saying, "Join or die" they have the right to say what they wish.

Believing what you want must be coupled with a tolerance of allowing others to do the same.

dkbrattlie said...

Oh and I forgot, Irshad Manji is the author of that book if you were interested at all.

Also a comment left by someone named Ahsana caught my eye when they wrote "pls read the Quran with full explanation, just try to know about when a husband can beat his wife&with what?"

This is one of the fundamental problems with Muslims because they think that there is EVER a time when a husband should be allowed to hit his wife, with ANYTHING... I mean, heck, my husband knows if he ever hit me, Id probably hit back, but something tells me if a Muslim woman tried to defend herself she'd be dragged into the street and stoned to death...

The Merchant of Menace said...

Thank you for your reasoned comments, dkbrattlie. However, I must respond to your objection which you level against me, as I believe that it is based on a misunderstanding of my position regarding religion and an ignorance of the facts.

You quote Jefferson against me: “It does me no injury for my neighbour (sic) to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” That opinion is both naive and misleading.

In my country those who claim to ‘believe’ in the Christian and Muslim faiths do actually injure me, and do effectively pick my pocket and break my leg, to use Jefferson’s examples. They do this by not keeping their faith a private matter shared with those of a similar disposition but by continually imposing it on the rest of us – who are the majority, in fact - in an attempt to make our society less secular than it actually is. Furthermore, my country bears the scars, physically, emotionally and financially, caused by the internecine bloody fighting between Catholics and Protestants as well as the murderous attacks directed by Muslims against kafirs (i.e. the name they use for everyone who does not ‘believe’ in Islam). In short, in recent times people in this country have been killed in large numbers by these religionists simply because they did not share the perpetrators’ particular religious views. What’s more, the facts I have just recounted also apply in your country.

Whilst those who murder in the name of their religion may be in the minority, the fact remains that they are sustained by the majority who share their particular faith – a recent survey here showed that over two-thirds of Muslim university students defended suicide bombers who had committed murderous atrocities here – and the main Muslim groups have not only continually refused to condemn them either, but spokespersons for those groups have frequently exhorted Muslims to murder kafirs. With that sort of support, it is a complete mistake for you to assert that religionists “have the right to say what they wish”. After all, if you are going to allow them to say what they wish, provided that it is in accordance with their religion, then you also give them free reign to DO what they wish, provided that it is in accordance with that religion. Besides, if religionists are to be free to say and do as they like, provided that it is in accordance with their particular beliefs, then you must extend the same allowances to atheists like me. We are, after all, the majority.

Nevertheless, I appreciated your comments, and the reference to Irshad Manji's book, and thank you for them.

The Merchant of Menace said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Merchant of Menace said...

My previous comment was removed by me simply because it was a duplicate of my comment to dkbrattlie and had been posted twice in error.

incomparable624 said...

the prophet peace be upon him explained how to beat your wife in that very exceptional case which you are focusing on and ignoring all other verses that tells how couples should be loving and respecting, he said in the hadith "a very light beating". like a tap on the shoulder or so. and we use this hadith as an explination for the verse. and in another hadith he also said " And the best amongst you will not beat their wives". 

The Merchant of Menace said...

It is notable that you do not cite specific references to substantiate your claim that it is acceptable for a husband to give his wife a ‘very light beating’ but then that is hardly surprising because the Qur’an, which is claimed to be the inerrant word of ‘god’, contradicts you as it states categorically in sura 4:34:

ٱلرِّجَالُ قَوَّٲمُونَ عَلَى ٱلنِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بَعۡضَهُمۡ عَلَىٰ بَعۡضٍ۬ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنۡ أَمۡوَٲلِهِمۡ‌ۚ فَٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتُ قَـٰنِتَـٰتٌ حَـٰفِظَـٰتٌ۬ لِّلۡغَيۡبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ ٱللَّهُ‌ۚ وَٱلَّـٰتِى تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَٱهۡجُرُوهُنَّ فِى ٱلۡمَضَاجِعِ وَٱضۡرِبُوهُنَّ‌ۖ فَإِنۡ أَطَعۡنَڪُمۡ فَلَا تَبۡغُواْ عَلَيۡہِنَّ سَبِيلاً‌ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّ۬ا ڪَبِيرً۬ا (٣٤)

The highly regarded and literally accurate Pickthal version translates that into English as:
“Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.”

You will note the use of the word ‘scourge’, which the Oxford English Dictionary (2nd Edition) defines as: “To beat with a scourge; to whip severely, flog.” In other words, the word ‘scourge’ can never be taken to mean ‘very lightly beat’; on the contrary, it clearly means the complete opposite.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, even if your unsubstantiated assertion was correct (which it is not), it is never acceptable amongst civilised peoples that a husband is allowed to give his wife a ‘very light beating’ to discipline her and enforce his domination over her.

The Merchant of Menace said...

Addendum to my above response to incomparable624:

Clearly you are conflating the Hadith with the Qur’an, yet they are actually opposites for the Qur’an is Quadeem, or without beginning, i.e., the Qur’an is allegedly the word of Allah, whereas the Hadith is Makhlooq, or created, i.e., allegedly the statements of Muhammad.

Notwithstanding the respect and veneration which you choose to extend to Muhammad, statements attributed to him cannot overrule statements attributed to Allah. In other words, when the Hadith contradict the Qur’an, it is the words of the Qur’an which prevail.

Eleana said...

why bother attacking their faith. no one is asking you to believe it, they ENCOURAGE convertion but do enforce it, those who do are extremist muslims. you are disrespectful. i am not muslim but i have no problem with how they choose to live their lives. argue a matter of importance no petty prejudice.

The Merchant of Menace said...

And no one is asking you to post your ignorant and stupid comments here either. The fact is you are obviously completely ignorant of the contents of the Qur'an, so don't come here bleating that I should support the right of people to call me a kafir and threaten me with death just because I am sufficiently rational not to participate in their psychopathological delusions and threats to my way of life. In other words, fuck off, Eleana, you disrespectful and totally ignorant person.

The Merchant of Menace said...

Oh, and whilst you are on the subject of dealing with 'things of importance', Eleana, you are clearly ignorant of the fact that Islam treats women as less than second-class equals to men and, furthermore, that it exhorts its true believers to murder all of us who are not so dysfunctional psychologically that we need to believe in their particular brand of mumbo-jumbo and irrational nonsense. But the you have perhaps not heard of the murderous atrocities that have been carried out in the name of Islam over the past few years and which are supported by the majority of Muslims?

In other words, Eleana, go and peddle your complete ignorance of reality elsewhere, because you will get no shrift here.

AbdulhalimH said...

If some dont know what he is talk about, its better to shut his mouth.

The Merchant of Menace said...

It is evident from your language that you are not only illiterate but also completely ignorant and that you do not know what you are talking about. Consequently, I suggest that you take your own advice: shut your mouth and stop dribbling your logorrhoea here.

georgeeshleman said...

If muslims want to keep calling the (non-believer) ignorant on the islamic religion, then why not try and show us a different view. Stoning, beating of women, blowing themselves up, killing other muslims, oh yea, and just plain crazy nutjobs. I have been in 16 countries, fought in 5 conflicts, and have seen the true muslim religion. Convert, enslave, or kill. It is in your so called holy book. Our god wanted to die for us, your crazy pedophile profit wants you to die for him. Now, who is the stupid one. Alla my butt.